Indo-Greco-Coptic Nexus (Part 1 of 3), by Vrndavan Parker
The historic connections between India and Greece are many. Recognition of this reality is of great import and value. Properly identifying the many commonalities between not only India and Greece but those of ancient Egyptian or the Coptic civilization as well will do much towards the development of an accurate understanding of the entire history of human civilization.
Ancient India and ancient Greece share many incredible commonalities so much so that it is as if India, with its languages, customs, religion, politics, science and culture had been transplanted to Greece. This may seem startling to the casual observer yet many evidences seem to confirm that in ancient times India and Greece were intimately connected.
Initially it is helpful to cite those evidences that clearly prove ancient contacts between the two cultures. Though both of these instances below are dated relatively late, 200 BC to 500 AD, they give a clear impression of the interconnectivity between the Mediterranean world and India.
According to the Buddhist work the Mahavamsha, the chronicle of Ceylon, (modern Sri Lanka) Alexandria was known as Alasanda. During the inauguration of the Mahathupa, built by King Dutthagamini in the 2nd century BC, the monks from the entire Buddhist world came to attend the function. The Mahavamsha states, “And from the city of the Greeks, Alasanda, the Greek Maha Dhammarakkita who was an elder came bringing with him 3000 Buddhist monks (bhikkhus).” (XXIX, 39) The Thupavamsha calls the Budddhist monastery in Alexandria, Alasanda-Vihara.
We also have the report about an Indian sage named by the Greeks as Zarmanochegas from Bharukaccha, modern day Bharuch, Gujarat, India. It is said that he solemnly mounted a funeral pyre in front of the startled eyes of the Athenians.
Another ancient writer Photius, while reviewing the works in his library, analyzed a work of Damaskios called the Life of Isidore (Bios Isidorou) In this work a man named Severius is mentioned. “Now the Brahmins who were in Alexandria came to Severius and the latter received them with due respect. And these Brahmins living in this country lived in all purity, without using the public baths or exposing themselves to the people of the town. They avoided all obligations of going out and lived on dates and rice and simple water as their drink. These people were neither the Brahmins who lived in the mountains nor those who lived in the towns but they actually lived these two sorts of life making themselves the middlemen between the Brahmins of the mountains and those of the cities according to the necessity of their service. On the subject of the Brahmins of the mountains they repeated what the writers have narrated, that they produce by their prayers rain and drought, remove famine, pests and other kinds of disease as far as the destiny yields the remedy.” This statement clearly highlights that the Vedic Brahmins of Alexandria, Egypt were treated with great respect, honor and dignity. The Severius mentioned here was formerly the Consul of Rome in the year 470 AD. His treatment of the Brahmins speaks of a long term recognition of their worth and integrity in the eyes of the Roman leadership.1.
Many scholars promote the theory that the invasion of Alexander the Great into India was the beginning of the Indo-Greek interplay. However this theory does not stand up to the evidence. First, Panini who predated Alexander by centuries was familiar with their language and called it Yavananai. Second, Greek captives of the Persian Emperors Darius Hystaspes and Xerxes were forcibly relocated to Bactriana and Sogdiana, (modern Afghanistan and N. Pakistan regions.)
In his book, Gates of India, Holdich remarks,” The captive Greeks who were transported in the 6th century BC by Darius Hystaspes from the Libyan Barke to Bactrian territory were still occupying a village called Barke in the time of Herodotus. A century later again during the Macedonian campaign of Alexander, Kyrenes existed in that region according to Arrian, and it is difficult to account for them in that part of Asia unless they were the descendants of those same exiles from Libya, a colony of Kyrene whom Darius originally transported to Bactria. They were in possession of the strategic Kaoshan pass too. Another body of Greek colonists are recorded to have been settled in this same part of Bactria by Xerxes after his flight from Greece, namely the Brankhidai, whose original settlement appears to have been in Andarab (modern Afghanistan). We have seen that from the very earliest, prior to the Greek invasion of India, this was probably the region of western settlements in Bactria. It is about here that we find the greatest number of indications of Greek colonization.” 2
H.C.Seth writes “The Greek colonies (in Bactria) seem to have been quite extensive. It was amongst these that Alexander massacred ‘a harmless community’ of exiles from Branchidae for their ancestors supposed treachery towards Apollo.” 3
So obviously there had been long term contact between Greeks and Indians for hundreds of years before the arrival of Alexander. One can truly wonder if perhaps some of these Greeks were actually native to the region. Perhaps these ‘colonies’ were made up of a combination of Mediterranean exiles and ‘Indian’ Greeks. It would be similar to British-Americans settling back in England or Irish Americans relocating back to Ireland.
As for Alexander the Great, what can we learn from him regarding India? For one thing Alexander was not marching towards India blindly. In his words, according to Arrian, as he prepared to march into India, Alexander proclaimed to his men, “that they were now going to enter those famous countries so abundant in riches, that even what they had found and seen in Persia would appear as nothing in comparison to them.”4 So obviously by his use of the word ‘famous’ it can be understood that India was well known to the Greeks.
It can be asked, “If Greece and India were truly inter-related civilizations why do we not see obvious and immediately identifiable evidence of this?
The answer is that in order to understand that ancient Greek and Indian cultures are nearly identical we need to look at modern India as an example. Since religion is and has always been a major focus of both Greek and Indian cultures let us start there.
If one were to visit a Krsna temple in NW India and then travel to Orissa’s Jagannath Puri, an informed person would recognize that they are visiting a Krsna temple in Puri as well. However someone with no knowledge of Hinduism would be quite challenged to recognize that Bal Gopal of Rajasthan and Jagannath of Orissa are the same deity.
Krishna as Bala Gopal (NW India)
Krishna as Jagannath (East India)
Travel all over India and again and again one is confronted by extremely diverse representations of the same deities and personalities. Many times the legends themselves are different and barely recognizable. Thus India’s Hanuman is an eternal Brahmacari or Bachelor whereas in Thailand this same Hanuman is married. Most times names are radically different as well. Both the mood and modes of worship vary greatly. Yet most Hindus will be able to recognize that, regardless of the differences, all these divinities are all a part of the same religious tradition worshipping the same Gods. Modern Hindus can easily sort this out because the texts, spiritual lineages or Sampradayas are intact and most source materials are still available. This, combined with an impressive record of unbroken traditions, allows us to have a complete picture of India’s complex religious diversity. On the other hand, Greece and many other ancient Vedic cultures lost that connectivity that had allowed them to retain an accurate understanding of what was what and who was who. Within their own Greek records they speak of a time of many wars that nearly destroyed early Greek civilization. Research has also revealed that in 2193 BC a severe drought lasting two hundred years impacted the entire globe. This is evidenced by black ice samples found in ice on Mt Kilimanjaro in Africa. This effectively disrupted trade and put an end to any ongoing cultural exchanges. The impact of this drought was so severe that the Nile River failed to flood for 50 years. The famine and chaos that followed effectively brought about the end of Egypt’s Old Kingdom.5
Fourteen hundreds later, by the year 1150 BC the early Greek civilization had collapsed. In conjunction with the Thera volcanic eruption, which occurred between 1627 BC and 1600 BC, ancient Greek society was plunged into a dark age. It is said that the Minoan fleet and ports on the isle of Crete were destroyed by colossal seismic and tidal waves. They never did recover their former grandeur and functionality. In the long term climatic changes affected crops for many years, this in turn led to famine and social breakdown.
Obviously the Greeks were affected as well. As the centuries went on the Greeks were left with mere scattered legends and broken traditions. They basically lost many and most of their active links to India. However their culture and religion was still a Vedic based tradition despite the fact that the Greeks themselves no longer retained an accurate memory of their own history and culture. Thus the deities and temples continued to carry out Vedic rituals etc but they lost the ‘why’ and as time went on they lost the ‘how’ in regards to the authentic Vedic traditions. If this same trauma had been experienced by the Hindus in India perhaps the same situation would have arisen. Scholars could easily speculate as to the proper identity of Jagannath and Krsna. They would obviously be seen as completely separate Gods. Most likely the bogey of competing and conflicting religions would be hoisted upon the Hindus as well as has been done to the ancients of Europe, Africa, the Americas and West Asia. Kali and Durga may have become two competing deities, and Rama and Krsna separate Gods. Shiva as the Linga and Shiva in human form would not be recognized as the same God. Without the background information how would anyone recognize that the human form of Shiva and the Linga rock are the same being? How could anyone ascertain that the Shalagram rock form of Vishnu and the four armed human-like form of Vishnu are the one? It would be impossible to ascertain that all of Vishnu’s 10 Avatars are recognized as the same Divinity? Now by superimposing this formula on the ancient Greeks we can begin to understand how ancient Western religion has been so misconstrued. With this understanding it becomes easier to identify the Vedic basis of Greek religion and culture. The various Greek Gods are the same Vedic Gods. However we can not rely on mere visual overviews to correctly identify the Vedic identity of the Greek Gods. This can only be done by careful research that takes into account the iconography, symbolism, names, legends and relationships of these Gods to other Gods. Thus we see that the Greek God and Goddess Kouros and Rhoda may indeed be a Greek version of Krsna and Radha. Not only are the names similar but the names mean the same thing and these two beings have the same relationship as Radha Krsna within the Indian tradition. Evidence shows that the original form of Helios (Hari) was worshipped on the Greek Isle of Rhodes as Kouros. The original form of Fortuna was named Rhoda. It was on this isle of Rhodes where the great Colossus of Rhodes was built. More accurately this colossus was a gigantic deity of Helios or Hari. The isle of Rhodes was the center of the Helios tradition. Games were held annually on Rhodes in honor of Helios and the Eagle was His companion.6
From left to right: Kouros, Kore (Rhoda), Kouros, Kore (Rhoda)
From left to right: Ancient Bengali Bronze Radha, Ancient Greek Rhoda
From left to right: Modern Indian Radha Krsna, Ancient Greek Rhoda
From left to right: Ancient Greek Kouros, Ancient Rajput Krishna, Christ as Helios from the Vatican
The Christ as Helios Mosaic is from the 2nd century AD and is located on the Vatican grottoes under St. Peter’s Basilica. The two left horses were destroyed when the hole was made to enter the tomb. This is evidence that early Christians recognized Helios as the Christ. Due to the inference that the ancient Jews appear to have recognized Helios as God combined with the fact that early Christians identified Christ as Helios we can deduce that the Greek Helios was much more than a mere solar deity.
Helios was frequently symbolized as a discus or a corona. When we apply this information to Egypt, this becomes a clue towards correctly identifying the nature of Akhnaten’s religion. Rather than an animistic solar religion, Akhnaten was worshipping Helios symbolized by the sun. One of Egypt’s three main Ancient cities was Heliopolis and it was built by the son of Helios and Rhoda.7 It was an astronomical centre and a literary hub, where intellectuals, including Greek philosophers, studied. Akhnaten worshipped this same Helios as Aten. He built a beautiful temple in Heliopolis in honor of the God. This same Divinity is the very same Ra-Harakhty who is also named Heru. We know the names from the many inscriptions left by the ancient Egyptians. When see names like Heru, Horus, Harakhty, Aten, Amun we can only be sure of the consonants and merely guess at the pronunciation of the vowels. Thus HR in Heru may just as well be Hari or Hara. Since modern scholars are only speculating that it is Horus or Heru, surely the well known names of Hari or Hara of the ancient, vibrant and ongoing Vedic-Hindu tradition can be reasonably applied. On the right we see HR with the Eagle or Falcon (Garuda), the Serpent over His head and
as a resting place for the Disc (Anantasesh), the Disc (Sudarshan Chakra) and the Lion (Nrsimha) the Sphinx. We know the Sphinx is HR because He came to Akhnaten’s Grandfather, Tuthmose IV, as Ra-Harakhty in a dream. In this dream He promised Tuthmose IV the throne if he would clear the sand away from His form as the Sphinx. Also called Amon-Ra, Sobk-Ra He was honored as the father of the Gods; it was from Him that all the Gods and Goddesses were created. He is also known by three aspects. Hari is also known in three aspects Bhagavan, the localized personal feature, Paramatma, the Lord in the heart s of all and in every atom and Brahman, the non-personal transcendent reality and effulgent light. The Aten tradition of Akhnaten was the didactic form of the HR, Helios, Hari tradition. This means that it was the instructive, interactive aspect of the religion. In other words, it perfectly correlates with the Vedic Bhakti traditions of India. Thus the same thread of devotion to Helios connects the religious traditions of the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Jews, Christians and the Vedic civilization of India.
Helios is Kouros as well. Kourus was recognized as the youthful form of Helios. Kouros was actually considered as the origin of all the Greek gods. He is described as a beautiful youth tending His sacred white cows with His elder brother and friends. He plays a flute and leads the boys in dance as they clash their cymbals. He dances with Rhoda and Her expansions in a circle dance named after Him called the Chorus Dance. As the Lord of the Dance He is called Choreagos from which is derived the modern word ‘Choreographer’. The Eagle is sacred to Helios and to Krishna. The peacock feather was the pre-eminent symbol of both Helios and Kouros and famously of Lord Krsna as well.8 We can reach these conclusions, not merely based on similarities, but rather upon the facts. The Vedic and the Greek Gods and Goddesses mentioned here are exact mirror images of each other. Just as Jagannath can be identified as Krishna based on the information available to us, the identity of the Greek Gods can similarly be ascertained. Amazingly, the authoritative descriptions preserved in the Vedic literatures are the key to understanding ancient Greek religion and culture. Clearly without the correct background information we can never properly identify the Greek Gods. Just as early European visitors to India could not recognize Jagannath of Orissa and Bala Gopal of NW India as the same God it is impossible to instantly recognize the Vedic identities of the Greek Gods. Only through solid research that is grounded in an accurate knowledge of the Vedic culture and traditions can we begin to decipher the mysteries of the ancient world.
From left to right: Moschophoros Kouros the Calf Bearer, Gopala Krishna Protector of Cows
In order to gain an accurate understanding of the Greek religion, we are required to abandon the faulty information and misrepresentations of Greek religion that we are familiar with. Most of our sources come from Homer’s works. It is very important to recognize that leading Greek scholars like Plato rejected Homer’s works as blasphemy.
It was as if a novel about Radha Krsna, Sita Rama, Shiva Durga, Ganesh etc had been written ignoring the accepted and authoritative views of these Divinities. In the same way Homer, the author of the Iliad etc twisted the Greek Divinities into jealous, violent, greedy and murderous beings in order to fit into his misconceptions and story line. Without any attempt to represent the Greek Gods within their traditional characters, Homer re-worked their personalities into horrific portraits of inhumanity. The famous Greek writer and philosopher Plato was greatly disturbed by Homer’s misinterpretations of the Greek Sacred traditions. In fact, he spent considerable energy towards having Homer’s works banned. Yet to this day, Homer’s views are presented as a key to understanding the authentic Greek religion and traditions.
As long as we base our understanding of Greek religion and history on Homer’s works we will never be able to recognize the truth regarding ancient Greece’s Vedic Past. The chart below reveals Homer’s views of the Greek Divinities. Contrary to Homer’s myopic outlook, Plato’s perspective reveals Greek Gods that are more in sync with the Vedic view on the Nature of the Divine. Specifically when we look at Plato’s views on the psychologies and conduct of the Greek Gods we see Divinities we can relate to as Vedic. While there are obvious truths to both views, Plato’s view is much more reflective of the Goodness and Grace that is the foundation of any true Divinity.
Difference Between Homer’s Gods and Plato’s Gods
A. Psychological
B. Conduct
Vrndavan Parker is currently working full time for the Dharmic cause. He is a founding member of WAVES, the owner and founder of Vedic Empire Productions, a founding member and former Vice-President of the Vedic Friends Association, and a former executive board member of Community Television of Lane County, Oregon.
April 12th, 2010 16:31
Wow - this article’s quite a treat!
April 19th, 2010 05:14
FANTASTIC ARTICLE.QUITE AN EYE OPENER.ALL THE PRE-CHRISTIAN AND PRE-ISLAMIC RELIGIONS OF THIS WORLD SHOULD HAVE BEEN DERIVED/CHANGED VERSIONS OF HINDU RELIGION WITH DEEP CONNECTION TO THE VEDIC GODS.LOOKING FORWARD TO A SIMILAR STUDY OF THE PAGAN RELIGIONS WHICH WERE DESTROYED BY THE CHRISTIANS.VERY LITTLE EVIDENCE IS LEFT OF THE PRE-ISLAMIC RELIGIONS OF ARABIA.I AM VERY INTERESTED TO READ ABOUT THOSE DESTROYED RELIGIONS TO UNDERSTAND THEIR CONNECTION WITH THE SANATHANA DHARMA.
CAN SOMEBODY ENLIGHTEN ME ON AMBAS MERU IN PRESENT DAY ETHIOPIA AND THR RELIGIOUS SIGNIFICANCE ACCORDED TO THIS MOUNTAIN BY THE PRE-CHRISTIAN,PRE-ISLAMIC RELIGIONS OF ETHIOPIA?
GREAT WORK.MAY THE GOOD WORK PROGRESS WELL.
WITH REGARDS
V.RAVISANKAR
May 27th, 2010 08:06
Good reserch on these civilisations
good work !!
June 1st, 2010 00:50
I am a concerned Hindu youth.
The Hari and Horus comparison struck me there. Horus was the son of Isis and Osiris (sometimes Hathor), and as far as I can remember, I cannot recall Vishnu having parents. Also, most of the names of the Egyptian Gods are in Greek - for example, Thoth, the god of Wisdom, is written around the lines of ‘Djehuti’ in hieroglyphs. As for the God Kouros, my friend (another Hindu youth, and very learned in Greek/Egyptian mythology) and I, have only heard of Kouros as a Cretian god and would like some external references to Greek texts (preferably translated, of course) and Cretian texts before we are ready to believe that everything is derived from Hinduism and not some common early source.
June 6th, 2010 17:47
Hello. I am another concerned Hindu youth form the United States. In fact, I am the very friend of Deepshikha, whose post is above mine. I would like to begin by saying that through this article, the writer is basically ordering the whole world to believe that Hindu civilization is the oldest and greatest of all civilizations that ever existed. Also, he is saying that the Indus-River Valley Civilization is the oldest civilization ever and that the ancient Sumerian civilizations came after them.
First of all, dating of artifacts from the Mohenjo-Daro and Harrappa dig sites date the Ancient Indus civilizations not appreciably older than approximately 3500 years old. That would be around 1800-1600 B.C.E. As we all know, the Ancient Indus Civilization was, as far as can be traceable and proven, the first and oldest “Indian” civilization. Now, let’s look at the dating from the Ancient Sumerian sites. The most early dating of the Ancient Sumerian civilizations dates back to the sixth Century B.C.E. Almost 4500 years previous to the Ancient Indus Civilization. The fact that the author of this article implied in this composition that Ancient Indus civilization is the oldest disconcerts me beyond belief and shocks me. Even if we look at the oldest existing civilization, it is not India. The credit for that goes to China, with the Huang He Valley civilization beginning around 600 years previous to the Indus Valley Civilization.
Next, let’s look at how the author presents religion. The way the author presents Hinduism, he says that Hinduism has always been a henotheistic religion. However, this is not the case. When the Hindu religion was first brought to the Indus Valley Civilization by the Ancient Aryan race from present-day Turkmenistan, that religion was truly polytheistic. All the gods were completely separate entities that reflected different aspects of nature. Over time, with European and Islamic contact, Hinduism gradually developed into a religion that accepted Brahman as the supreme being and that all the other gods were simply different manifestations of him. This change did not occur until at least, if not a few centuries later, in the Mauyra period of India. By saying that Hinduism has always been polytheistic, not only is the author lying and going against fact, he is discrediting himself and forcing the general population to be deluded.
Now let’s look at the Ancient Greek religion. The Ancient Greek religion has always been polytheistic, it never was henotheistic. Of course there were a few monotheists in Greece at the time, the most prominent examples being the philosophers Anaxagoras and Aristotle, but the actual religion of Ancient Greek religion was always polytheistic, just as Hinduism was during its roots.
Next, let’s look at how Homer represents the Ancient Greek gods. In Greece, the gods were supposed to be like humans. That is part of the “Greek Miracle” as many scholars call it. Up until this time, every pre-existing religion had feared their gods. They believed in sacrifice, blood, death, etc. But then came along the Greeks. With the Greeks, man became the center of the universe. The Greeks created their gods, or the gods created man depending on what you believe, in their own image i.e. man’s image. That is why the Greek gods are so flawed. The Greek gods are meant to possesses all the flaws of humanity. But at the same time the Greeks loved their gods. Why? Because they could relate to them. They were on a more intimate level with them than a supernatural being who always was wise and correct. Personally, I would prefer the religion where I can love gods that are like me rather than the religion where I always have to assume that whatever the gods do is correct no matter what.
Also, the author of this article implies that the Iliad is dumb because it’s a war story meant to teach Greek ideals. If so, I would like to say the same thing about the Mahabharatha. the Mahabharatha not only teaches a war story, but it shows a story of cousins killing each other! Please prove to me that this is justified and then I might discredit the Ancient Greek religion.
Plato indeed discredited Homer, yes. But he was the only one and many, many Greeks resented him for that fact. Why? Well for the same reason that I would go around telling my fellow Hindus that the Mahabharatha and Ramayana are nothing more than long, tedious epic poems that were written to entertain rather than to teach morals. Throughout the Iliad, the main hero, Achilles, goes through many metamorphoses. The Iliad is actually about a man learning what is correct and what is unacceptable to do. The Iliad is not some story that the Greeks came up with just to kill some time. It was composed by Homer because he wanted to tell his fellow Greeks how to live a good and correct life. Much like the Mahabharatha and Ramayana were composed for the same reason. Throughout the Iliad there are hundreds of lessons that one can learn about how to live a correct life, just like the Bagavad Gita.
Now, let’s move on to how the author presents the Greek god Helios. First of all, he said that Helios was the same as Hari. I assume that he means Vishnu when he says Hari. First of all this comparison is completely frivolous. Helios was a sun god. Vishnu was a protector god. A better comparison would be Helios to Surya. At least now they have the same realms. And then let us look at your “connection” to Egyptian mythology.
In the Ancient Egyptian religion, Ra was the god of the sun, not Aten. Aten was the god of the sun’s rays. The same way we call the sun “Surya” and the sun’s rays “Vijay” in Hinduism. Another major point that I would like to present: all of the names of Ancient Egypt that we know of are actually Greek. My friend pointed this out in her post but I would like to reiterate it. Scholars are not actually guessing about how to pronounce the Egyptian names because the Egyptians didn’t write down their vowels. Instead, scholars are looking at the Greek version of the Egyptian names.
Kouros…I have studied Greek Mythology nearly to its fullest. I am yet to come across a name that even sounds close to this. There is an Ancient Cretan god that existed by this name but there is no Greek god as far as I know. And I have never heard of Rodha. However, I think that you misspelled RHEA who was the wife and sister of the Titan King Kronos (sometimes spelled CHRONOS/CHRONUS/CRONUS/etc.) As far as I know Rhea was just another nature goddess. She had no realm that was specific for her other than being “Mother of the Olympians.” Again, please check your facts before you post near blasphemy on the internet.
Next, towards the very beginning of the article, the author said that Hindu priests were in Alexandria. First of all, this defies every fact that we know about Greek attitude towards outsiders. Anyone who was not Greek was automatically barbaric and often sentenced to the death penalty if they entered Greek lands without the correct papers, much like visas function today. So you are telling me that the Greeks would have accepted some of the most devoted people of another religion to the ceremony that opened a new city? Please! The Greeks probably allowed the Indian ambassador in Athens to visit, but that would have been it. The Greeks were very strict about outsiders and followers of foreign religions. In fact, they persecuted the Romans even though they basically copied the Greek ideas! One more time, please get your facts straight before you try to use them to support your opinions.
Throughout the article, the author calls the Greek gods are merely the Hindu gods with different names. Please tell me that the author was lying and just joking! As far as I know, there is no goddess in Hindu mythology whose realms are wisdom, warfare, battle strategy, handicrafts, and patron of the city-state. Or how about god of archery, medicine, arts, literature, music, and prophecy? The list goes on and on and on. I really do not feel the need to continue this. The only similarity that I can think of is that the King of the Gods in both religions, Indra and Zeus in Hindu and Greek Mythology respectively, share a weapon: the lightning bolt. However past that, there are none that I can think of. Even the realms of these two gods are nearly completely different! Zeus was the god of all, king of gods and mankind, and ruler of the skies. But Indra was the god of war and bad weather. In Greek mythology, the god of storms was Poseidon, not Zeus.
With all of that said, I reiterate one more time: Please do not post blasphemy unless you get your facts straight.
Before I leave however, I would like to point out two statements the author made in this article: “Ancient India and ancient Greece share many incredible commonalities so much so that it is as if India, with its languages, customs, religion, politics, science and culture had been transplanted to Greece”
The stereotype goes to say that Indians are a whole are known for three qualities and three qualities only: their algebra skills, their tolerance of others, and their arrogance.
These two sentences are the epitome of the last quality: arrogance. By sayig that India is the oldest and most important of civilizations, the author is discrediting himself and completely losing his own credibility. Everyone should know the foremost part of writing a research or persuasive paper: remain as unbiased as possible without losing sight of the opinion that you are trying to present. The fact that the author posted this in the second paragraph of this article makes me embarrassed to call myself an Indian. That arrogance is uncalled for and completely unnecessary.
For now I sign off. I will read the second part of this series soon and reply to that as well.
June 8th, 2010 05:57
Your points are based on a false foundation. Aryans never invaded. Hinduism was not created by humans. In truth modern Hinduism represents much more than an indo-centric reality. It is humanity’s largest and ongoing cultural phenomenon. It has maintained a continuity to the ancients who were of divine origin…as are we. Hinduism represents humanity’s best link to the primal Santana Dharma at the very foundation of creation itself. Sanatana Dharma is eternal and was not created by any group of people thus it is ever present to anyone and everyone. Since its a reality, just like fire and sun, Sanatana Dharma, God, the Devas and Devis are all tangible and real and accessible to any seeker anywhere regardless of race or location (loka). Thus when a devout seeker or Bhakta calls upon the creator they will be interacting with and invoking the same Divinity whether in India or Greece. Thus Helios and Hari or Eli are One. If you are seriously interested in the subject go here.
June 8th, 2010 06:00
http://www.myspace.com/secrethistoryofthedivine
June 8th, 2010 06:07
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=405444306&albumID=288889&imageID=1105575
This Stelle is Proof of the points in my article.
June 9th, 2010 08:50
@ Deepshikha
Vishnu and Hari ( krsna) are the same.
But Vishnu is the form of god that creates and maintains the universes.
Hari is the original personality of god he who enjoys his creation.
And for this purpose,to please his devotes and to annihilate the wicked.
He takes birth on earth and other planets.
Just like Horus he has parents and has to be hidden, from demons who know who he is, and think they can kill him. He is all so most beloved in his child form as is Horus
Sri Krishna Himself explains this in the Bhagavad-Gita:
“Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear in every millennium in My original transcendental form. Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practices, O son of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion–at that time I descend Myself. In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of Dharma , I advent Myself millennium after millennium. One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.”
(Bg. 4.4-9)
You must be a Hindu in name only because you clearly have no knowledge
So…. Hinduism 101
The divine couple
Radha & Krsna
expanding form them is Lakshmi & Vishnu
Then comes Saraswati & Brahma
(Saraswati is the goddess of wisdom learning arts music and much more)
for the benefit of your ignorant friend vikram he should pray to her for wisdom and knowledge.
Saraswati & Brahma are flowed by Shive and Parvati
All the expansions have a working purpose in the management of creation.
I hope this helps you understand Hinduism a little, thou it will takes many years of study to fully understand.
June 9th, 2010 23:53
subcontinent, contains the earliest forms of Hinduism, but certainly not modern Hinduism.
Accordingly, Hinduism may be the world’s “oldest” religion, but that doesn’t mean Indians are the embodiment of all things old and antique. Why is it that the modern (North) Indian’s genome has more in common with the European? Why does the earliest form of written Sanskrit, the language of the Vedas, only appear around 1500 to 1200 BCE? The Sanskrit language is very similar to “Italic, Venetic, Illyrian, Albanian, Germanic, Baltic, Slavic, Thracian, and Greek branches of Indo-European [the ancestor of Sanskrit]” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration). Many more things had happened by around 1500 in the western part of the world; simply look at the Egyptians.
Finally, @kunti , Athena and Apollo embody the same characteristics of Saraswati. Why should he pray to her, or to them? It is his personal choice, and if Athena and Saraswati are freely giving out wisdom, either will do (after all, it’s from the same source).
@ Vrn , MYSPACE is not a legitimate source. I’ve given Wikipedia, the Rigveda, and Religioustolerance.org as my sources. I would never, no matter what I am discussing, rely on myspace to find any [important] factual information. Also, Helios was a titan. The titans were usurped by the Gods, and eventually, Apollo took his roles. You will find Apollo has more in common with Saraswati than to Krishna/Hari.
Anyway, I’ll leave with a bit of irony here: “In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.” -Buddha
June 9th, 2010 23:54
@Vrn:
“It [Hinduism] is humanity’s largest and ongoing cultural phenomenon.” And you say that it is not Indo-centric?
We agree to disagree I guess. Obviously you believe that Hinduism has existed since the beginning of time even though humans haven’t come into existence until just about 30,000 years ago while the Earth is approximately 4.6 billion years old.
Also you are telling me that Hinduism has never evolved, no? Well, let’s look at the prime example of this: In the Vedas (The oldest and most supreme of Hindu texts), Indra is the king of the gods and all the other gods follow him. However, in modern Hinduism, it is extremely rare to even come across a mention of Indra since the Trimurti (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva) rule Hindu culture.
Also, I’m sorry, but the fact that you sent me to a MYSPACE which is OBVIOUSLY your own does not count as a legitimate source. When you find something in the Vedas, Ramayana, or Mahabaratha…THEN please come to me about Hinduism being the greatest religion ever. And also, showing me an INSIDE source that says that Hinduism is the greatest religion ever is completely biased and unreliable. Please show me a GREEK or EGYPTIAN or even CHINESE or some other civilization saying that Hinduism is the greatest and I might consider the thought.
Until then, you are only basing your information on false information and false truths.
What I find hilarious is the fact that you tell me that I am saying untruths when your own article has very little factual basis in and of itself.
Though I do appreciate you at least attempting to be polite conversely to your pall Kunti who did not even try to.
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@Kunti:
So you do not believe in freedom of religion? So you are telling me that anyone who does not follow Hinduism is a sinner? You are telling me that anyone who does accepts the teachings of science is nothing more than a sinner? Well let me go through an infinite number of lifetimes and never reach salvation then! It is not worth it! Any god(s) that tell me that unless I follow their religion with no questions asked is not worth following. That religion is not worth my time or energy.
Thank you for pointing out the obvious! Of course I am ignorant! But what irks me is that you speak as though you are not. Socrates once said “Me? All I know is that I know nothing. And for that, I am considered wise.” So you have learned every single thing that makes this universe keep from collapsing upon itself just by studying your own religion.
*snort* And you tell ME that I should pray for wisdom… Wow… What you write makes me question my fellow Hindus.
And one more thing. You can pray to any wisdom god(dess) however much you want. But no matter what they will not spoon feed it. It will only come through your own personal experiences and surviving through the hardships that life throws at you. So “praying for wisdom” never works unless you seek it out through your own personal experiences.
Also, you Hinduism 101 class was unnecessary. Anyone who has gone through a high school world religions class would have known what you just told me. And yet I am a Hindu. So I would know more than the average high schooler. Believe it or not, I have actually read some of the sacred texts (translated) in their entirety. I have to ask…Have you read any of them in their entirety?
Also, your spelling errors make me laugh. How old are you that you can’t even spell SHIVA or THOUGH correctly? Even a fourth-grade Hindu would be able to spell those words correctly. So please tell me: How old are you?
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In general: A year or two ago, when I corrected another Hindu who had made a mistake about the Ancient Greek religion I was shunned very badly.
This has been repeated over and over again by other Hindus since. If my fellow Hindus are so arrogant that they believe they know all there is to know about everything, I can do nothing to temper that ego.
I have discovered that it is nothing more than a waste of my own time and energy.
June 10th, 2010 18:44
Hinduism and India do not always mean the same thing as testified by Vietnam’s Balomon people and the Hindus of Bali.
Re: Myspace. The Myspace page I referred you to is 1 of 8 myspace pages I put together. The core of the pages’ value is in the audio tracks which only myspace provides…thus I used myspace. Any prejudices re myspace are irrelevant in this case because these myspace pages are loaded with the very evidences that confirm my thesis; the very thesis being challenged. I advise anyone sincerely interested in the subject to go over the evidence, listen to the audio tracks, read the studies and papers provided there and than come back and debate the issue. Without doing so one is truly wasting time and energy. You can bring a horse to water but you cannot make the horse drink. Thus the refusal to go over the evidence of an issue bespeaks of a lack of interest in the subject. Also when the meaning of another’s words are clear yet one nitpciks on spelling issues it becomes impossible to reach any logical conclusion. Complaining of being shunned while ignoring one’s own abrasive writing style is not helpful. Just perhaps its how things are said and not what is being said is the issue at hand. Regardless of any doubts Hari, Eli, Helios, Horus, Hara, Olu etc are all One and the Same. Helios is Christ as well. The Creator is the same for all of us. Saints and sages across BharatVarsha have long interacted with Hari. This entire planet is Bharatvarsha. That ancient connection to Hari has been best preserved in modern Bharat (India). Yet that connection to Hari is not solely Indian. It is our common global heritage.
June 10th, 2010 20:19
Are you the only source for your information? Do you have external sources? (I myself found another website, perhaps run by yourself, that states the same, and isn’t on myspace.)
Either way, I don’t deny that all the gods are manifestations of one, great divine force, but what you’re saying is like saying that Latin (I’m now in Latin VI) is derived from Sanskrit because they have a few similar words. Obviously, Latin isn’t. It’s an Italic language derived Greek and Etruscan, which are themselves derived from the Proto-Indo-European language, which is also the family Sanskrit belongs in.
As for similarities, it’s because we come from the same place, humans have experienced the same experiences over and over; it makes total sense that all we’re all connected by a few similar thoughts through time and space. (like all the flood stories)
Either way, there’s no Set out to kill Vishnu; the Hindu gods make their own problems by granting boons like crazy to anyone (Bhrama granting Mahishasura his boon, and then everyone scrambling until Durga is created).
Athena is not Saraswati; Saraswati is not Athena. Ra isn’t Indra, and Indra isn’t Ra. And Helios is a sun god. Hari/Vishnu is not; that attribute is applied to Surya/Ravi, hence the Surya Namaskar…
June 10th, 2010 20:20
And obviously, you’re a Vishnu-ite. I’m not. If you had to categorize me, I’d be a Shiv-ite. To me, Shiv/Shakti are the supreme. Everyone else derives from them.
December 12th, 2010 01:04
Deepshikha, then that’s your whole problem, dude.
December 13th, 2010 01:33
So your Hinduism is better than my Hinduism?
June 19th, 2011 07:37
Thank you for the good writeup. It actually was a leisure account it. Glance complex to far introduced agreeable from you! However, how can we be in contact?