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	<title>Comments on: Real concept of “Varn” as preached in Geeta, by Shri Mrityunjayanand</title>
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	<description>Hindu Magazine for Youth</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: We are all hindus now: NewsWeek - Page 10 - GupShup Forums</title>
		<link>http://www.hinduyuva.org/tattva-blog/2008/12/real-concept-of-varn/#comment-15148</link>
		<dc:creator>We are all hindus now: NewsWeek - Page 10 - GupShup Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hinduyuva.org/tattva-blog/?p=585#comment-15148</guid>
		<description>[...] Originally Posted by Bulld0zer   "The works of Brahmins, Ks.atriyas, Vaishyas, and Shudras are different, in harmony with the three powers of their born nature." [41]  Its in English.    The term Varn has been very frequently used in Bhagavad-Geeta and it has a specific meaning behind to understand. The four stages into which action-the ordained mode of worship-has been divided are the four varn; rather than being caste-names they represent the lower and higher states of the same worshipper. The same path of action has been divided by the sage into four parts: the lowest, medium, good, and excellent. Sri Krishn has named the seekers treading on these paths respectively Shudr, Vaishya, Kshatriya, and Brahmin. Action begins at the level of the lowest, but in the course of his spiritual quest the same seeker can evolve into a Brahmin. Further than this, when he is united with God, there remains neither Brahmin, nor Kshatriya, nor Vaishya, nor Shudr, but only pure intelligence, the eternal and changeless Supreme Spirit. He then transcends all these classes. Sri Krishn says that he has created the four classes. But, as it was pointed out earlier, the classification was on the basis of action rather than according to birth. This can not be classified on the basis of birth because he preaches:  The immortal Soul in the body is a part of mine and it is he who attracts the five senses and the sixth-the mind-that dwell in nature.   Real concept of ?Varn? as preached in Geeta, by Shri Mrityunjayanand &#124; Tattva [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Originally Posted by Bulld0zer   &#8220;The works of Brahmins, Ks.atriyas, Vaishyas, and Shudras are different, in harmony with the three powers of their born nature.&#8221; [41]  Its in English.    The term Varn has been very frequently used in Bhagavad-Geeta and it has a specific meaning behind to understand. The four stages into which action-the ordained mode of worship-has been divided are the four varn; rather than being caste-names they represent the lower and higher states of the same worshipper. The same path of action has been divided by the sage into four parts: the lowest, medium, good, and excellent. Sri Krishn has named the seekers treading on these paths respectively Shudr, Vaishya, Kshatriya, and Brahmin. Action begins at the level of the lowest, but in the course of his spiritual quest the same seeker can evolve into a Brahmin. Further than this, when he is united with God, there remains neither Brahmin, nor Kshatriya, nor Vaishya, nor Shudr, but only pure intelligence, the eternal and changeless Supreme Spirit. He then transcends all these classes. Sri Krishn says that he has created the four classes. But, as it was pointed out earlier, the classification was on the basis of action rather than according to birth. This can not be classified on the basis of birth because he preaches:  The immortal Soul in the body is a part of mine and it is he who attracts the five senses and the sixth-the mind-that dwell in nature.   Real concept of ?Varn? as preached in Geeta, by Shri Mrityunjayanand | Tattva [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mrityunjayanand</title>
		<link>http://www.hinduyuva.org/tattva-blog/2008/12/real-concept-of-varn/#comment-14510</link>
		<dc:creator>mrityunjayanand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 02:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hinduyuva.org/tattva-blog/?p=585#comment-14510</guid>
		<description>Pranam,
A little expansion and elaboration was just to make an attempt to explain that Bhagwad Geeta verses do not support from any where about castes,nor about creed,or colour as already agreed.The terms "Varn" and "Varnsankar" have some misconceptions which has been attempted to get clarified in light of Geeta verses well with in the boundaries of Geeta in two articles.Both the terms are purely metaphysical and the same has been tried to explain with some details for clear conceptions.

The Geeta is not a holy book that belongs to any one individual, caste, group, school, sect, nation or time. It is rather a scripture for the entire world and for all times. It is for all, for every nation, every race, and for every man and woman, whatever be their spiritual level and capacity. Irrespective of this, however, just hearsay or someone’s influence should not be the basis for a decision that has a direct bearing upon one’s existence.Sri Krishn says in the last chapter of the Geeta that even just hearing its mysterious knowledge is indeed salutary. But after a seeker has thus learnt it from an accomplished teacher, he also needs to practise it and incorporate it into his own conduct and experience. This necessitates that we approach the Geeta after freeing ourselves from all prejudices and preconceived notions. And then we will indeed find it a pillar of light.

SAGES pave and widen the felicitous path by opposing misconceptions and blind customs that but seem like truth and proliferate in its garb. This has been a vital need since the beginning, for many divergent ways come into being with the passage of time. So deceptively like truth do they appear that it is almost impossible to distinguish them from reality and assert that it is so. But since realized sages dwell in the essence, they can recognize ways that are at variance with it. They are capable of representing truth in a definitive form and prompting other men to its pursuit. This is what all most revered seer-prophets-Ram, Mahabir, Buddh, Jesus, and Muhammad-have done. And so it was with the more recent revered Tulsidas, Kabir, and Guru Nanak ji also.

Many such misguided customs, claiming to represent truth, had flourished in Yogeshwar Krishn’s time, too. Being a realized sage who had perceived the highest spiritual reality, he opposed these false creeds and thus fulfilled his given obligation of bringing men back to the path of righteousness. Doesn’t he tell Arjun in the sixteenth verse of Chapter 2 that "The unreal has no being and the real has no non-being; and the truth about both has also been seen by men who know the reality?’’ The unreal has no existence while, on the other hand, the real is never non-existent.Sri Krishn also admits at the same time that he is not saying this as an incarnation of God: he is only saying what has also been affirmed by other sages who realized the truth of the Soul’s identity with the all-pervading Supreme Spirit. His account of the human body as a sphere of action (kshetr) and of the one who grows spiritually dexterous by subduing it (kshetragya) is akin to what has also often been professed by other great men of discernment. 

My very humble submission for exposition of verse forty seven,chapter eighteen is that although inferior, one’s own obligation is better than even the well performed duties of others. A man absorbed in performing a task that is determined by his own nature does not incur sin in so far as he is not subjected to the endless cycle of "entrances" and "exits"-of birth and death. It is quite often that worshippers begin to feel disenchanted with the service they are rendering-. They look at the more accomplished seekers who are absorbed in meditation and grow envious of the honour that is accorded them because of their merits. So novices at once fall to imitating. According to Sri Krishn, however, imitation or envy can be of no avail. The final accomplishment is only by dedication to one’s own native calling, not by its abandonment.Again in chapter three,verse thirty five,Sri Krishn says:

"Although inferior (in merit), one’s own dharm is the best and even meeting with death in it brings good, whereas a dharm other than one’s own, though well observed, generates only fear.’’

There is a seeker who has been engaged in worship for ten years and there is another who is being initiated into the process only today. It is but natural that the two cannot be equal. The novice will be destroyed if he imitates the experienced worshipper. It is for this reason that Sri Krishn says that, even though deficient in quality, one’s own dharm is better than another man’s well-observed dharm. The ability to engage in action that arises from one’s nature is one’s dharm. So dying in the observance of one’s own dharm is truly fortunate. After the Soul assumes a new body, he will resume his journey from the same point of spiritual attainment at which he had stopped in his last physical life. The Soul does not die. A change of clothing does not change the mind and its thoughts. To masquerade as men who have gone ahead of him will cause the seeker only more fear. Fear is a quality of nature, not of God. The pall of nature is thickened when there is imitation.There is abundance of cheap imitation on the "spiritual" path.

 The seeker has to practise his own dharm.What is this one’s own dharm (swadharm)? In Chapter 2,Sri Krishn had named it and told Arjun that even with his own dharm in view it was his duty to wage war. There was no more blessed a way for a Kshatriya. From the point of view of his innate property, the inherent dharm, Arjun was declared a Kshatriya.Sri Krishn told Arjun that for the Brahmin, truly devout men possessed with knowledge of the Supreme Spirit, instruction in the Ved was like taking a bather to a mere puddle. But Arjun was urged to learn the Ved and grow into a Brahmin. In other words the inherent dharm is subject to change. However, the really significant point is that the inherent dharm is the most conducive to one’s well-being. But this does not mean that Arjun should imitate a Brahmin, and dress and look like him.The same path of action has been divided by the sage into four parts: the lowest, medium, good, and excellent.Sri Krishn has named the seekers treading on these paths respectively Shudr, Vaishya, Kshatriya, and Brahmin. 

And I am fully convinced with this exposition," Only two kinds of spirit of life prevail: One the BHAKTA [yogi/dharmist] and another THE DEVIL [asur/adharmist]."

Regards.
OM SHANTI ! SHANTI !! SHANTI !!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pranam,<br />
A little expansion and elaboration was just to make an attempt to explain that Bhagwad Geeta verses do not support from any where about castes,nor about creed,or colour as already agreed.The terms &#8220;Varn&#8221; and &#8220;Varnsankar&#8221; have some misconceptions which has been attempted to get clarified in light of Geeta verses well with in the boundaries of Geeta in two articles.Both the terms are purely metaphysical and the same has been tried to explain with some details for clear conceptions.</p>
<p>The Geeta is not a holy book that belongs to any one individual, caste, group, school, sect, nation or time. It is rather a scripture for the entire world and for all times. It is for all, for every nation, every race, and for every man and woman, whatever be their spiritual level and capacity. Irrespective of this, however, just hearsay or someone’s influence should not be the basis for a decision that has a direct bearing upon one’s existence.Sri Krishn says in the last chapter of the Geeta that even just hearing its mysterious knowledge is indeed salutary. But after a seeker has thus learnt it from an accomplished teacher, he also needs to practise it and incorporate it into his own conduct and experience. This necessitates that we approach the Geeta after freeing ourselves from all prejudices and preconceived notions. And then we will indeed find it a pillar of light.</p>
<p>SAGES pave and widen the felicitous path by opposing misconceptions and blind customs that but seem like truth and proliferate in its garb. This has been a vital need since the beginning, for many divergent ways come into being with the passage of time. So deceptively like truth do they appear that it is almost impossible to distinguish them from reality and assert that it is so. But since realized sages dwell in the essence, they can recognize ways that are at variance with it. They are capable of representing truth in a definitive form and prompting other men to its pursuit. This is what all most revered seer-prophets-Ram, Mahabir, Buddh, Jesus, and Muhammad-have done. And so it was with the more recent revered Tulsidas, Kabir, and Guru Nanak ji also.</p>
<p>Many such misguided customs, claiming to represent truth, had flourished in Yogeshwar Krishn’s time, too. Being a realized sage who had perceived the highest spiritual reality, he opposed these false creeds and thus fulfilled his given obligation of bringing men back to the path of righteousness. Doesn’t he tell Arjun in the sixteenth verse of Chapter 2 that &#8220;The unreal has no being and the real has no non-being; and the truth about both has also been seen by men who know the reality?’’ The unreal has no existence while, on the other hand, the real is never non-existent.Sri Krishn also admits at the same time that he is not saying this as an incarnation of God: he is only saying what has also been affirmed by other sages who realized the truth of the Soul’s identity with the all-pervading Supreme Spirit. His account of the human body as a sphere of action (kshetr) and of the one who grows spiritually dexterous by subduing it (kshetragya) is akin to what has also often been professed by other great men of discernment. </p>
<p>My very humble submission for exposition of verse forty seven,chapter eighteen is that although inferior, one’s own obligation is better than even the well performed duties of others. A man absorbed in performing a task that is determined by his own nature does not incur sin in so far as he is not subjected to the endless cycle of &#8220;entrances&#8221; and &#8220;exits&#8221;-of birth and death. It is quite often that worshippers begin to feel disenchanted with the service they are rendering-. They look at the more accomplished seekers who are absorbed in meditation and grow envious of the honour that is accorded them because of their merits. So novices at once fall to imitating. According to Sri Krishn, however, imitation or envy can be of no avail. The final accomplishment is only by dedication to one’s own native calling, not by its abandonment.Again in chapter three,verse thirty five,Sri Krishn says:</p>
<p>&#8220;Although inferior (in merit), one’s own dharm is the best and even meeting with death in it brings good, whereas a dharm other than one’s own, though well observed, generates only fear.’’</p>
<p>There is a seeker who has been engaged in worship for ten years and there is another who is being initiated into the process only today. It is but natural that the two cannot be equal. The novice will be destroyed if he imitates the experienced worshipper. It is for this reason that Sri Krishn says that, even though deficient in quality, one’s own dharm is better than another man’s well-observed dharm. The ability to engage in action that arises from one’s nature is one’s dharm. So dying in the observance of one’s own dharm is truly fortunate. After the Soul assumes a new body, he will resume his journey from the same point of spiritual attainment at which he had stopped in his last physical life. The Soul does not die. A change of clothing does not change the mind and its thoughts. To masquerade as men who have gone ahead of him will cause the seeker only more fear. Fear is a quality of nature, not of God. The pall of nature is thickened when there is imitation.There is abundance of cheap imitation on the &#8220;spiritual&#8221; path.</p>
<p> The seeker has to practise his own dharm.What is this one’s own dharm (swadharm)? In Chapter 2,Sri Krishn had named it and told Arjun that even with his own dharm in view it was his duty to wage war. There was no more blessed a way for a Kshatriya. From the point of view of his innate property, the inherent dharm, Arjun was declared a Kshatriya.Sri Krishn told Arjun that for the Brahmin, truly devout men possessed with knowledge of the Supreme Spirit, instruction in the Ved was like taking a bather to a mere puddle. But Arjun was urged to learn the Ved and grow into a Brahmin. In other words the inherent dharm is subject to change. However, the really significant point is that the inherent dharm is the most conducive to one’s well-being. But this does not mean that Arjun should imitate a Brahmin, and dress and look like him.The same path of action has been divided by the sage into four parts: the lowest, medium, good, and excellent.Sri Krishn has named the seekers treading on these paths respectively Shudr, Vaishya, Kshatriya, and Brahmin. </p>
<p>And I am fully convinced with this exposition,&#8221; Only two kinds of spirit of life prevail: One the BHAKTA [yogi/dharmist] and another THE DEVIL [asur/adharmist].&#8221;</p>
<p>Regards.<br />
OM SHANTI ! SHANTI !! SHANTI !!!</p>
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		<title>By: tp</title>
		<link>http://www.hinduyuva.org/tattva-blog/2008/12/real-concept-of-varn/#comment-14484</link>
		<dc:creator>tp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hinduyuva.org/tattva-blog/?p=585#comment-14484</guid>
		<description>I agree with SKB
Varn and VarnSankar by the author:

GitaMata is NOT about castes, nor is it about creed, or colour as sophiticated by the author in such obsessed manner.

Gita focuses upon KARMA AND DHARMA.

When Arjuna's disillusion is overwhelming him with the degradation of family values, etc, by inter-faith marriages, it is then BHAGAVAN SHREE KRUSHNA puts the record straight. 

Explicitly: According to Gita: Only two kinds of spirit of life prevail: One the BHAKTA [yogi/dharmist] and another THE DEVIL [asur/adharmist].

Read and re-read the GITA, there will be such beautiful exemplification upon divine character, divine integrity, divine intentions, divine consideration bhavna [compassionate attitude], divine sincerity, truthfulness, duty-boud karma yogi, divine light of knowledge of the soul, real and unreal; love, divine love, all being a portray of good self-less satt-vik humble servant of god.

The part of GITA expounding upon shortfalls in ASURAs or devilish humankind emanate from ignorance, darkness of desires, lust, greed,obssession, false control, false ownership, egotism, selfishness,ircha [jealousy], envy, anger, hatred; corrupted thoughts, impurities, and many other.......

I fail to see why there is so much expansion and detailed elaboration even beyond the boundaries of Gita in two articles by the author.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with SKB<br />
Varn and VarnSankar by the author:</p>
<p>GitaMata is NOT about castes, nor is it about creed, or colour as sophiticated by the author in such obsessed manner.</p>
<p>Gita focuses upon KARMA AND DHARMA.</p>
<p>When Arjuna&#8217;s disillusion is overwhelming him with the degradation of family values, etc, by inter-faith marriages, it is then BHAGAVAN SHREE KRUSHNA puts the record straight. </p>
<p>Explicitly: According to Gita: Only two kinds of spirit of life prevail: One the BHAKTA [yogi/dharmist] and another THE DEVIL [asur/adharmist].</p>
<p>Read and re-read the GITA, there will be such beautiful exemplification upon divine character, divine integrity, divine intentions, divine consideration bhavna [compassionate attitude], divine sincerity, truthfulness, duty-boud karma yogi, divine light of knowledge of the soul, real and unreal; love, divine love, all being a portray of good self-less satt-vik humble servant of god.</p>
<p>The part of GITA expounding upon shortfalls in ASURAs or devilish humankind emanate from ignorance, darkness of desires, lust, greed,obssession, false control, false ownership, egotism, selfishness,ircha [jealousy], envy, anger, hatred; corrupted thoughts, impurities, and many other&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>I fail to see why there is so much expansion and detailed elaboration even beyond the boundaries of Gita in two articles by the author.</p>
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		<title>By: S.K.Balasubramanian</title>
		<link>http://www.hinduyuva.org/tattva-blog/2008/12/real-concept-of-varn/#comment-11218</link>
		<dc:creator>S.K.Balasubramanian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hinduyuva.org/tattva-blog/?p=585#comment-11218</guid>
		<description>This much sophistry is not needed. The Varna is not based on gunas and the promotion from one to the other. 
Gita is straight forward. Humans fall into four classes, depending on their innate propensities. This much is acceptable and is a fact of life. An intellectually inclined person need not be a good administrator. Similalry business requires qualities that differ from intellectual's. Finally there is a class that is fit only to accept the views of others and 'obey'. 
We do not like this and I certainly do not like the division on propensity.  But that does not disprove the validity of the gita shlokas.
The best approach is to accept the Gita and avoid the rigidity implied therein. 
I would quote gita XVIII, 47 that says the svadharma is the best one suited for any individual. "There is no commission of  sin following one's own Dharma".
The varna looked upon as jati creates the complication. Jati is professional competence while varna is 'vocation'. The two are different. Familial line in jati was necessary when the skills were not taught in schools. Present day requirments of skills far excceds what the family can supply. Jati is therefore an unwanted burden on the family. 
Varna is different. Dislike it you may, but you cannot excape it. 
Skb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This much sophistry is not needed. The Varna is not based on gunas and the promotion from one to the other.<br />
Gita is straight forward. Humans fall into four classes, depending on their innate propensities. This much is acceptable and is a fact of life. An intellectually inclined person need not be a good administrator. Similalry business requires qualities that differ from intellectual&#8217;s. Finally there is a class that is fit only to accept the views of others and &#8216;obey&#8217;.<br />
We do not like this and I certainly do not like the division on propensity.  But that does not disprove the validity of the gita shlokas.<br />
The best approach is to accept the Gita and avoid the rigidity implied therein.<br />
I would quote gita XVIII, 47 that says the svadharma is the best one suited for any individual. &#8220;There is no commission of  sin following one&#8217;s own Dharma&#8221;.<br />
The varna looked upon as jati creates the complication. Jati is professional competence while varna is &#8216;vocation&#8217;. The two are different. Familial line in jati was necessary when the skills were not taught in schools. Present day requirments of skills far excceds what the family can supply. Jati is therefore an unwanted burden on the family.<br />
Varna is different. Dislike it you may, but you cannot excape it.<br />
Skb.</p>
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